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Particulars of Christianity:
302 The Trinity


The Trinity: Immediate Interactive Dialogue

Introductions
The Angel of YHWH as YHWH God
The Angel of YHWH as Distinct from YHWH God
Immediate Interactive Dialogue
A Consistent Expectation about Seeing God's Face
Survey Examining Eternal Past Existence
Establishing Eternal Past Existence
Distinction of the Spirit of YHWH
Ancient Jewish Recognition of Trinitarian Facts
The Trinity in the New Testament
Addendum 1 & 2
Addendum 3

At this point we would like to focus in on a particular component of the interaction between the angel of YHWH and Old Testament figures. At first it might be conceived that the angel of YHWH is simply an ordinary angel, a messenger that travels between two parties delivering messages, in this case between YHWH God and men. By mentioning this idea here, we do not mean to suggest that it is still a viable option. To the contrary, we have already disproved this interpretation by our examination of earlier passages. However, beyond the insurmountable problems already discussed, another problem exists with this “ordinary angel” hypothesis. And the details surrounding this problem are both informative and worth discussing. In particular, the facts involved in this issue demonstrate another need to conclude that the figure known as the angel of YHWH actually was YHWH visiting in a humbler form.

Specifically, some of the passages involving the angel of YHWH record conversations that are interactive. In other words, God not only gives a statement but the human in the story responds or asks a question, prompting another response from God. God’s response comes immediately without the angel of YHWH having to depart to take the human’s message to God and later return with God’s reply. Since God’s response comes immediately to the human being without the angel of YHWH having to act or even travel as a courier, two closely related questions arise.

First, how is it that the angel of YHWH immediately knows YHWH’s response without having to travel back to hear it from YHWH himself? Perhaps the obvious answer would be that YHWH is transmitting his response directly into the mind of the angel of YHWH in a manner that, for lack of a better term, equates in some way to “telepathy.” (“Telepathy – communication from one mind to another by extrasensory means” – Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary.) However, this suggested answer leads unavoidably to the next question.

Second, if YHWH God is communicating “telepathically” so that no one needs to be in God’s immediate presence in order to acquire his response, then why doesn’t YHWH just communicate “telepathically” to the men he is communicating with? Why does YHWH use the angel of YHWH? To be clear, we would not in any way dispute that YHWH God has the capacity to convey his response directly into the minds of angels and men. However, the suggestion that YHWH chose to use an intervening messenger in these instances would demonstrate that he chose not to employ any such “telepathic” communication in conveying his will to the men in these passages. After all, if God was going to communicate “telepathically,” what is the need for the angel of YHWH in the first place? Why send a messenger at all? Consequently, with the fact that God has chosen to use “the angel of YHWH” rather than “telepathy,” we are left with the question of how the angel of YHWH is depicted as immediately bearing YHWH’s responses to the interactive conversations with the men in these accounts.

Several of the passages that we have examined contain this type of interactive dialog with the angel of YHWH in which the angel of YHWH speaks YHWH’s response immediately without having to return to YHWH to hear his reply. Genesis 18-19 is a very early example and a prominent one because it occurs in the life of Abraham. Although it certainly provides introductory precedent for later chapters, this passage is not as straightforward as later examples because the text of these chapters simply identifies the visitor as YHWH and does not use the phrase “the angel of YHWH.” However, the internal content of the passage along with external comparisons to other passages (in which the visitor is identified as “the angel of YHWH”) demands the conclusion that Abraham’s visitor here is indeed figure known as the angel of YHWH.

Genesis 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground…10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him. 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also? 13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old? 14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. 15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh…20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. 22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?...26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes…30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake. 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake. 33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place. 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom…

In this passage, we see Abraham speaking back and forth with a visitor who is determinably the angel of YHWH and their conversation is interactive so that Abraham continues to pose new questions and the angel of YHWH immediately bears the answer of YHWH without having to visit with YHWH. This is most prominently seen in two places. First, it is prominent in verses 10-15 in which Abraham and the angel of YHWH speak concerning Sarah’s future pregnancy, Sarah laughs, and then the angel of YHWH responds to her laughter. Second, it is also prominent in verses 23-32 in which Abraham asks the angel of YHWH a series of questions concerning how many righteous men would compel God to spare the city. In each case, the angel of YHWH immediately bears YHWH’s answer without having to visit with YHWH. Again, we ask, how is this possible?

The next occasion in which this occurs is also extremely prominent. It takes place in Exodus 3-4, which describes the first interaction between YHWH God and the central patriarchal figure of Moses. And this instance is even clearer than Genesis 18-19 because it does identify Moses’ visitor as the angel of YHWH. Although the discourse is lengthy, spanning the entirety of chapters 3 and 4, we include it here in order to demonstrate the dramatic extent to which the dialog is “back and forth” and the figure known as the angel of YHWH immediately knows YHWH’s response without having to visit with YHWH. Notice again that verse 2 is clear that it is the angel of YHWH who is appearing to Moses from the burning bush while the rest of the chapter repeatedly identifies this same visitor as YHWH and, when he speaks, identifies that it is YHWH speaking.

Exodus 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. 16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt: 17 And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey. 18 And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God. 19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. 20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go. 21 And I will give this people favour in the sight of the Egyptians: and it shall come to pass, that, when ye go, ye shall not go empty: 22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put them  upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians. 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. 2 And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod. 3 And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. 4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand: 5 That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee. 6 And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow. 7 And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh. 8 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign. 9 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe also these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it  upon the dry land: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land. 10 And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. 11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man’s mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? 12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say. 13 And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send. 14 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. 15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. 16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God. 17 And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs. 18 And Moses went and returned to Jethro his father in law, and said unto him, Let me go, I pray thee, and return unto my brethren which are in Egypt, and see whether they be yet alive. And Jethro said to Moses, Go in peace.

The level of “back and forth” interaction between Moses and the angel of YHWH in this passage is monumental. And each time the angel of YHWH bears YHWH’s response immediately. First, in verses 4-6 when the angel of YHWH sees Moses approaching, he responds and tells Moses to remove his shoes. Second, in verse 11 Moses objects to God sending him, stating that he is no one of importance that he should go before the king of Egypt. In verse 12, the angel of YHWH immediately responds to this, speaking as YHWH. Third, in verse 13, Moses objects to God sending him on the grounds that the children of Israel will demand to know the name of God who has sent Moses. In verse 14, the angel of YHWH immediately responds to this, again speaking as YHWH. Fourth, in chapter 4:1 Moses objects again, stating that the Israelites will not believe him. In verse 2, the angel of YHWH immediately responds to this, once more speaking as YHWH. Fifth, in verse 10, Moses objects further, stating that he is not eloquent but slow of speech. Sixth, in verse 11, the angel of YHWH immediately responds to this, speaking as YHWH. And seventh, in verse 13, Moses gives his last objection, asking for God to send someone else. In verse 14, the angle of YHWH immediately responds to this objection also, yet again speaking as YHWH.

Again, we ask, how is this possible that the angel of YHWH immediately speaks and replies as YHWH?

Although to a lesser extent, we also see this type of interactive communication between the angel of YHWH and Balaam in Numbers 22. And the angel of YHWH’s statement in verse 35 clearly demonstrates that he is speaking as YHWH in this interactive dialog.

Numbers 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head (06915), and fell flat (07812) on his face. 32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: 33 And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive. 34 And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again. 35 And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak. 36 And when Balak heard that Balaam was come, he went out to meet him unto a city of Moab, which is in the border of Arnon, which is in the utmost coast. 37 And Balak said unto Balaam, Did I not earnestly send unto thee to call thee? wherefore camest thou not unto me? am I not able indeed to promote thee to honour? 38 And Balaam said unto Balak, Lo, I am come unto thee: have I now any power at all to say any thing? the word that God putteth in my mouth, that shall I speak.

The next two passages both come from Judges and the level of interaction is quite prominent. Judges 6:11-12 explicitly identifies that the visitor Gideon is communicating with is the angel of YHWH. Yet, very clearly in verses 14-20 (as well as 22-23), Gideon and the angel of YHWH have an interactive discussion in which the angel of YHWH repeatedly and immediately replies as YHWH.

Judges 6:11 And there came an angel of the LORD, and sat under an oak which was in Ophrah, that pertained unto Joash the Abiezrite: and his son Gideon threshed wheat by the winepress, to hide it from the Midianites. 12 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour. 13 And Gideon said unto him, Oh my Lord (0113), if the LORD be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where be all his miracles which our fathers told us of, saying, Did not the LORD bring us up from Egypt? but now the LORD hath forsaken us, and delivered us into the hands of the Midianites. 14 And the LORD looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites: have not I sent thee? 15 And he said unto him, Oh my Lord (0136), wherewith shall I save Israel? behold, my family is poor in Manasseh, and I am the least in my father’s house. 16 And the LORD said unto him, Surely I will be with thee, and thou shalt smite the Midianites as one man. 17 And he said unto him, If now I have found grace in thy sight, then shew me a sign that thou talkest with me. 18 Depart not hence, I pray thee, until I come unto thee, and bring forth my present, and set it before thee. And he said, I will tarry until thou come again. 19 And Gideon went in, and made ready a kid, and unleavened cakes of an ephah of flour: the flesh he put in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot, and brought it out unto him under the oak, and presented it. 20 And the angel of God said unto him, Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes, and lay them upon this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so. 21 Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight. 22 And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord (0136) GOD (03069)! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face. 23 And the LORD said unto him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die. 24 Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

And, we find a similar encounter in Judges 13.

Judges 13:1 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years. 2 And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren, and bare not. 3 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son. 4 Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing: 5 For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines. 6 Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name: 7 But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death. 8 Then Manoah intreated the LORD, and said, O my Lord, let the man of God which thou didst send come again unto us, and teach us what we shall do unto the child that shall be born. 9 And God hearkened to the voice of Manoah; and the angel of God came again unto the woman as she sat in the field: but Manoah her husband was not with her. 10 And the woman made haste, and ran, and shewed her husband, and said unto him, Behold, the man hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the other day. 11 And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, Art thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am. 12 And Manoah said, Now let thy words come to pass. How shall we order the child, and how shall we do unto him? 13 And the angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware. 14 She may not eat of any thing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: all that I commanded her let her observe. 15 And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee. 16 And the angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the LORD. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the LORD. 17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour? 18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? 19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the LORD: and the angel did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on. 20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground. 21 But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD. 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. 23 But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

In Judges 13, verses 1-9 specify that it is the angel of YHWH who is visiting and speaking with Samson’s parents. Verses 11-19 describe an interactive conversation back and forth between Samson’s father Manoah and the angel of YHWH. Yet, in verses 21-23, Samson’s parents clearly regard that they had been communicating with YHWH God. Consequently, the angel of YHWH is once again shown to be able to speak immediately as YHWH without having to go back and visit with YHWH.  

As we can see, there are multiple passages in which the angel of YHWH speaks as YHWH and immediately speaks YHWH’s response without having to consult or visit with YHWH. The ability of the angel of YHWH to speak for YHWH without consulting or returning to YHWH as a messenger naturally would indicates that the angel of YHWH is YHWH in a humbler, visiting form. This interpretation also has the advantage of explaining why the angel of YHWH can be interchangeably referred to simply as “YHWH” throughout such passages. He can be referred to as YHWH and he can speak immediately for YHWH because he is YHWH. Consequently, the nature of this immediate response during interactive conversations is yet another evidence indicating that the angel of YHWH was in fact a figure of YHWH God in a humbler, visiting form.